   Date: Mon, 02 Jun 1997 22:22:32 -0500
   From: GameMaster <dmovrich@execpc.com>
Subject: [gworld] Telepathy

Hello All,
   Just a general question for you all today. What types of information
do allow available to a character using telepathy? How do you make him
go about getting the info? One question per round? 10 questions?
   Currently in my campaign if a character has successfully rolled for
telepathy I have him write down 10 questions or areas of general search
(ie: if he knows of any potential "gold mines") then after all the
questions are asked I answer them one at a time to the satisfaction of
the player. Using this method eliminates the "talking" in telepathy.
   For example player askes "does he know who we are" the answer is yes
now the player wants to know "how does he know us". To me this isn't
really 'reading' the mind it's talking to the mind. Not what I believe
was the spirit of the mutation when it was created. If the character
would want to know the second question he would have to successfully
attack the character again and ask the question then.
   How does this compare to your gaming??

						Just curious,
							GameMaster

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

   Date: Mon, 02 Jun 1997 22:12:46 -0500
   From: GameMaster <dmovrich@execpc.com>
Subject: Re: [gworld] Espers, a new concept...

Reginald Blue wrote:
>
> Gang,
>
>         I've been struggling with Espers now since the introduction of 4th ed.
>  Basically, when you really look at them, no one should want to play them.
>  They have the lowest (IMHO) survivability ratio of any of the character
> classes.


I believe (IMHO) that the character with the lowest chance of survival
is an Examiner who does not aquire a tech V weapon to start off with. If
anyone needs party protection in the first level it is the examiner.
Only AFTER the battle does he show his worth. (ie: deciphering
instruction manuals, repairing broken artifacts, or figuring out the
artifacts.) All of these skills only benifit the party AFTER someone
else is killed and their weapons or items are found. In the event he is
killed before any higher tech weapons are found, he has been completely
worthless. Now once he aquires a decent weapon he becomes a formitable
ally; but then again any party member with a good weapon would be.


>         The problem is they never really advance beyond this.  (By the way, my
> view on this requires levels for the characters.  Several of you don't use
> them, so this isn't for you, I'm sure.)  At 20th level (and I've done this)
> an Esper is just about as useless as he is at 1st level, UNLESS he has some
> very nice mutations (and even then, it's not as dramatic as an Examiner or
> an Enforcer).  Which means most of the PC Espers are a waste of paper.


I think it is unfair to call Espers who don't have any good mutations
Espers. It's absolutly pointless to create a character and make him an
Esper if he only has the Levitation mutation. Mutations which have no
destructive or preventative properties (ie: Confusion or Mental
Paraylasis for "preventative") but still have a "power score" do not an
Esper make. If I had a character who had only the Levitation mutation
I'd make him anything else before I'd make him an Esper. Have you ever
seen the destructive properties of molecular disruption with a power
score of 32[start # of 12 + 20 (per 20th level)]!?! 15d8 in one round!!!
An Esper at the 20th level with Displacement.... Just when you think
you've got him licked POOF!! he's now 150m away... if you can find him.
Telepathy (something no self-respecting Esper should be without) the
ability to read an opponant's mind, worth its' weight 10 fold in gold
(or in this case domars), and with a score of +10 to any roll virtually
a gimmee. Density control others......death field
generation....photokenisis (god I hate that one)......Stunning force
(god I REALLY hate that one)...need I go on?? Beguiling... What are you
gonna do if a high level Esper uses this on you? You can't fight him
anymore you have to wait until he attacks you again, and by that time
it's too late.

<snip>

> And I'm thinking that the powers are on an activation system (they don't
> always work), and that it look like the attack system.  I'm thinking that
> the character has a score for each circle (not each power...that would be
> tedious), and that the score would be added to a d20 roll vs. something.
>  Perhaps base 10, with possible modifiers, or perhaps versus mental defense
> of his opponent.  The character's base score (at 2nd level for 1st circle)
> would be his Mental Strength modifier plus 2.  He would then go up a point
> every level.  But each circle is -2 from this score (i.e. at 20th, the
> average character (no MS mod) would be +20 for first circle +2 for 9th
> circle).

Not one for EASY systems huh?  ha ha ha


> Now this is all well and good, but my big problem is: What should these
> powers be?  I know for certain that I want them to be about the power level
> of D&D wizard spells of appropriate level, BUT I don't want them to be
> wizard spells per se.  I want them to have a more Psionic flavor

I whole heartedly agree !!! I really (no offence anyone) HATE the idea
of "wizards" or their spells.

< big snip>

> Reggie


	Reggie and all,
   Well we can't always agree huh? While I generally disagree with your
letter, I think it's primarily because you generalized. But recently I
did have a similar thought about "boosting" the powers of the Esper.
Only because I have really "boosted" the powers of the other classes so
much with the use of called shots. I use James' system of called shots
to vital areas doing 1d4x normal damage. (I think it was James anyway)
   I think where I had ended was really where it started to get
difficult... I was thinking of "mapping" the brain. Teadious I know, but
it was the only way I could see to give the called shot advantages to
Espers. How it would go is something like this: A called Mental Blast to
the whatchamacallit lobe... the attacker's roll is successful... the
defender looses his sence of balance or his ability to control his
bodily functions or whatever. (the bodily functions thing was a joke)
but I hope you get what I mean. Anyway what do ya think? My system is
probably as complicated as yours, although it looks like your actually
had some intellegent thought added to it...lol
   Anyway I fealt obligated to defend the Esper, however with the
current system of called shots I'm using they need a little help. I'll
be curious to hear your or anyone elses' response. Since my gaming is
down for the summer and will resume in the winter again, I've got alot
of time to work out the details.


							God I LOVE this game!!!
								GameMaster

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

   Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 19:50:40 -0400
   From: Reginald Blue <rvb@trsvr.tr.unisys.com>
Subject: RE: [gworld] New GW site: Impressions of GW over time...

below...

----------
   From: 	James[SMTP:James@jpb-s.demon.co.uk]
   Sent: 	Saturday, May 31, 1997 6:49 PM
Subject: 	Re: [gworld] New GW site: Impressions of GW over time...

<pift>
Was GW always a mutated animal/plant setting?

-- From Metamorphosis Alpha forward, there were always PSH, AH, and MA as
PCs (I presume this is what you mean?); however, SPs as PCs weren't
introduced until 3rd edition.  This carried into Metamorphosis Alpha to
Omega.

Were there always the Cryptic Alliances?

-- There were none in MA, I believe, however, they existed since 1st
edition GW (someone check me on this.)

Where does the Starship Warden/Metamorphosis Alpha
 fit in? I know it eventually turned up as an Amazing Engine
supplement, but was it not also a game that preceded GW?

-- I got this one already (but you hadn't seen it when you sent this).

Reggie

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

   Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 19:46:36 -0400
   From: Reginald Blue <rvb@trsvr.tr.unisys.com>
Subject: RE: [gworld] 4th Edition General questions

below...

----------
   From: 	James[SMTP:James@jpb-s.demon.co.uk]
   Sent: 	Friday, May 30, 1997 5:59 PM
Subject: 	Re: [gworld] 4th Edition General questions

<pift of previous message...>

However, what I was getting at was rather different. What I am was getting
at is how this extreme imbalance between the damage ordinary weapons do and
what people can take is counter intuitive, and has often resulted in
situations
where the story was going and where the mechanics led was totally
different. For example, in one game it happened that a crime boss wanted
to teach the party a lesson. He didn't want them dead, just shown them who
was who. Ideally I wanted a few thugs armed with clubs and chains to ambush
the party, bust them up a bit and leave. To simulate that in GW, I had to
use
shotguns, which of course gave the wrong message.

-- Hmmm...now this is interesting.  To me, it seems that this is one of the
MANY examples in role playing when it's difficult for the players to see
things from the CHARACTER'S perspective.  I've seen similar problems in DnD
where (for example) the GM would passingly point out a beggar on the
street, and the PCs (or players, actually) would get all bent out of
shape...like "How could this happen?!?" when, in point of fact, such things
were COMMON in that time period (perhaps this is a bit of a bad example,
but you get the idea.)  Unfortunately, I'm NOT sure how to fix this generic
problem.

-- In this case, I believe you were absolutely 100% correct in doing what
you did (using shotguns to get the player's attention), but how to get the
players to look at it from the right perspective?  That's hard.

But going back to the original example, let's look at it from the other
angle.
The "Freeze" scenario limitation applies just as much to the party.
I mean I can envisage all sorts of occasion when the
party might want to creep behind somebody. Maybe the don't know for sure
if these are the bad guys or maybe they want information. As a GM you can
fudge it, you can make the threatened npc's act afraid. But the real
problem
is for the players, who might want to take that course of action, but
are aware the mechanics can't handle it. You are still in the situation
whereby
what you want to express and what the rules allow are at odds. Which is why
I believe GW rules need some tinkering before they can be playable.

-- Depends, I'd say.  If we continue the perspective problem from above,
and the players believe that they can threaten npc's (seriously threaten
them, at least) with fists, chains, clubs or even shotguns, then they're
sadly mistaken.

-- If, however, the players REALIZE that in GW the ante has been upped, and
that if they want to threaten somebody, it's going to take something
significant (like a VibroBlade...or a Torc Grenade...or a Black Ray
pistol...now THAT would be something).  Of course, one could say "yes, but
now you've got to hand out these powerful weapons to do that", to which I
respond, yes and no.  Yes, you should hand out something more than just
shotguns, but no, you don't have to hand out black ray pistols.  The mere
fact that someone recognizes what a black ray pistol IS is far more useful
than having one.  Just PRETEND!  (and this works both ways).  It's like the
new trick the police are pulling:  Putting blow-up dummies in police cars
to make it look like there's a cop up ahead.  Great trick.  Cheap.  And
EFFECTIVE.

-- In other words, if someone jumped out of an alley with some weird device
in their hand and said "Freeze or I will kill you with this black ray gun",
I'd freeze.

Compare it Star Wars. Star Wars is a game which lends itself to a cinematic
style
and in which characters don't die easily. But at the same time it hasn't
lost any expressive
power.

-- I think you're saying that GW is the same, and I most assuredly agree
(although I haven't played Star Wars).

Reggie

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

   Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 18:56:42 -0400 (EDT)
   From: Kveldulf@aol.com
Subject: Re: [gworld] New GW site: Impressions of GW over time...

<<Was GW always a mutated animal/plant setting?
Were there always the Cryptic Alliances?>>

Yes.

<<Where does the Starship Warden/Metamorphosis Alpha
 fit in? I know it eventually turned up as an Amazing Engine
supplement, but was it not also a game that preceded GW?>>

Yes, it was its own game.  MA was the predecessor of GW and most of GW's
concepts and mechanics are in there.  Some stuff from MA didn't make it into
GW;  some made it in with minor changes (Wolfoids became Arks, etc).

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

   Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 10:40:31 -0400 (EDT)
   From: TimC27@aol.com
Subject: Re: [gworld] New GW site: Impressions of GW over time...

In a message dated 97-05-31 17:04:07 EDT, you write:

> So, you ask: what would he like to see, if none of the above really fits
>  the bill?
>
>  Gritty science fiction, with the edge of weirdness.  Kind of a
>  Post-Holocaust cyberpunk, but with a far more positive outlook for the
>  future.  Most cyberpunk scenarios are set in a society still spiralling
>  _downward_: GW should be working it's way _upward_ from the bottom.
>  Characters are operating in a world with HOPE.

Yeah, I like 'dark age' with tribal groups creeping toward civilization --
for the PC's.  NPC's have a much wider range.

>  Professions are fine, but allow characters to develop skills, with
>  skills in their area of expertise being easier to develop than most.

I don't really like the professions.  Too defined, particularly for a
post-civilized world.  Skills are what is important, not the name attached.
  
>  Redefine mutations with potency, prowess/skill, and onset stage
>  (infancy, puberty, or menopause).  The more powerful mutations can thus
>  be defined as only becoming active later in life, but are available for
>  subconscious use (dormant) if needed by the GM...

Yes, but kept VERY SIMPLE.  Over complicating them takes it out of GW flavor.
 I have always tried to sublty alter mutations to the character, and give
them a cost/benefit.  Use laser eyes, and you have to eat a lot to build up
the energy.  If you have wings, you must have some elevation to start flying.
 etc.

>  Psionics!  No, _not_ mental mutations, psionics.  Spell casters for a
>  future age... seeking masters to teach new disciplines... less powerful,
>  but far more flexible...

YES  Absolutely.  And available for PSH.

>  In the same vein, Martial Artists.  That would be one type of knowledge
>  that people would hold on to, I think you'd have to admit.

>  Well defined cybernetics.  Not just implants and prosthetics, but player
>  character androids, robots, and computer AIs.

Seems like you could treat them like an artifact, and give like a fake arm
its own strenght and dex and power needs.  Not much more is needed.

>  Even more mutated animal and plant genotypes, well defined.

Can't ever hurt.

Tim

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

   Date: Mon, 02 Jun 1997 00:18:46 -0500
   From: CdBd3rd <cdbd3rd@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [gworld] Red Death, was Arranists

Wow! Has the Red Death advanced so far in the past few years??  I knew I
should have kept a closer eye on them!
    Well, the ancients of the list should remember these sweet guys from
the first edition (and maybe 2nd or 3rd too - I'm too lazy to go pull my
books tonight) as a motley band of rabble intent on the total
destruction of everyone. "Elite assassins?!?" Hmmm, more like the
baddies of the Road Warrior/Mad Max movies I would say.
    Hey, James - get ahold of a first edition book and check them out. I
think you'll find the original setup of the RD to be quite useful in
your world. I think their actual name was Anarchists, aka RD.
    I always found them to be very useful and handy as 'no reason
needed' types of encounters. When the PC's find they've run across a
band of the RD, they understand that there's no real reason why they're
there.  Well, except for the fact that the RD is just a bunch of really
screwed-up individuals who are just out to screw with somebody to try to
make themselves feel more important.  [You know, kinda like the ones we
meet on the road every morning on our way to work!!]

As for the Arranists, I think I'm gonna like their style. I'll be giving
them some territory eventually.
Later,  Gary
                ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^
		REVEL IN THE DIVINE RADIANT GLORY !!!
		   [Gary] CdBd3rd@Worldnet.ATT.Net
          -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -

James wrote:
> The Red Death would not be appropriate for my campaign.
> Elite assassins belong to sophisticated worlds filled with political
> intrigue and subtle balances of power...
