----------------------------------------------------------------------------

   Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 11:44:47 +0100
   From: James <James@jpb-s.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [gworld] Money

> Actually, that's probably one of the best things about Gamma World, in
> terms of curbing the "Monty Haul" campaign. The group can have as many
> wonderful weapons and gadgets as they can get their grubby little
> tentacles on, but without power cells and ammo they're just that much
> extra weight.
> (Do you stay with your inert suit of Powered Assault Armor, or do you run
> for it when that Komodo is bearing down on you? Heh heh heh.) It's a lot
> more G.M. friendly than all the magical stuff in fantasy campaigns.

> I've actually got it to the point where bullets and power cells are
> a foundation of the economy in some areas of my campaign. My players can
> get 'em for bounty on various dangerous critters, which creates an
> interesting cycle of supply and demand. But I digress.


I found that too. If I give the bad guys a gattling or tommy gun (that's
what passes as a big gun in my campaign) I can pretty sure the party will
get there greedy hands on it. But that's okay because as you say eventually
they'll run out of ammo and thus the arms race is halted.

I wouldn't however go as far as using bullets as currency as it seems a
little artificial to me.  The role of weapons in an RPG is somewhat
overstated because they are the one item the gives equal amount of pleasure
to the character and player. A bottle of rum might be a great find for the
character, but it isn't quite as rewarding for the player.  As such it is
quite common players seem to spend virtually all their income on weapons
and armour. This isn't very realistic, but it is probably better than the
alternative of keeping track of every petty expenditure. However to raise
bullets to the status of currency seems to enshrine what is a metagame
concern into the setting, and I don't like that.

On similar lines, I once ran a GWish game centered around bounty hunters
(very Far West in style). If you are going to run a bounty hunter game,
money is going to be important. Bounty hunting is dirty an dangerous job.
It is not usually a vocation. The typical bounty hunter is in the business
for the money, and even then probably views it as temporarily occupation
while trying to save enough to open a bar or buy a farm.

So though the odd PC might have had a particular psychological hang up
which would make bounty hunting an attractive proposition, the general
assumption would have to be money would be the key motivation at play. And
this needed to be reflected in play. You  don't what to see the players
spending more than the bounty in order to capture the guy - it is bad
business. Similarly you'd expect them to make constantly judgments on
whether the risks/effort involved in a particular case were worth the
reward money offered.

But at the same time, I didn't want all the paper work involved with
keeping track of the pennies. In the end I came up with a new experience
system where xps where exclusively linked to bounties. Money spent on
informants/special equipment to catch the fugitive would be deducted from
the xps awarded. It wasn't a pure simulation, but it did bring player and
character motivations nicely in synch. You should have seen the dour
expressions when deciding whether to pay for a bribe which is good because
I don't expect the characters felt any different. Or better still, consider
the "classic Hollywood" bounty hunter dilemma: you've caught the fugitive
only to discover she is innocent (it is always a girl that plays this role
in the films). Do you let her walk? Rest assured that even for "mature"
roleplayers the choice is harder if you are giving xps rather than just
fake RPG money.

Regards,

--- James ----

http://www.jpb-s.demon.co.uk
Gamma World Appreciation &
Mutant Bikers of the Atomic Wastelands

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

   Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 16:30:56 -0400
   From: bigfella@bbs2.rmrc.net (Barclay Johnson)
Subject: Re: [gworld] Money


>I wouldn't however go as far as using bullets as currency...

Well, let me give you the run down of the functional value of bullets as
currency. Money itself after society has been smashed is a questionable
thing. The basic unit of gold money is the gold dollar in my campaign. It's
more a measure of weight than how it's minted or who mints them. A lot of
cheating can go on, plus a lot of gold usually is just dead weight in a
nation that's mostly wilderness. City states are in posession of most of
the gold, using it to trade with each other. Their citizens and vistors are
usually issued scrip money of some sort that has a value in gold within the
city walls only (this leads to some interesting improvised money too, in
Vegas they use poker chips, while in the heavily militarised city or
Corperal Crispy, Texas they use green plastic toy soldiers.) It puts the
cities kind of in the economic position of shopping at a company store,
plus it facilitates graft.
        Thus, barter becomes the rule of the day for most of the
inhabitants of the New West. Bullets make an ideal small change barter
item. They're lighter than gold coins, they're useful when you need them,
and they're rare enough to be highly valued. Only major cities and very
lucky towns have the facilities to manufacture bullets (I'd imagine that
most survivalists, as well as some gun enthusiasts, have the equipment to
make bullets these days. Some of that stuff would have survived the
Apocalypse.) Thus bullets have all the characteristics of money: rarity,
value, and portability, plus they come in handy when barter negotiations go
bad. Most townsfolk are happy to have bullets handed to them in exchange
for trade goods or services, rather than fired from a gun in their
direction. Thus bullets used as money have one more additional value in
that the more of them are in the cash register behind the bar, the less of
them are ricocheting around the room. (Plus for bars there's a distinct
advantage in that The more loaded the cowpoke is, the less loaded his
shootin iron is. Of course this doen't protect them from drunken bouts of
telekinesis and the like, but it's a step in the right direction.)
        Trying to pass bullets without any gunpowder in 'em, or drained
power cells, is a hanging offense in some areas.

>...In the end I came up with a new experience
>system where xps where exclusively linked to bounties. Money spent on
>informants/special equipment to catch the fugitive would be deducted from
>the xps awarded. It wasn't a pure simulation, but it did bring player and

I generally don't use experience in Gamma World, but it sounds like a good
system to suit your needs. Actually, bullets as cash make for an
interesting rate of exchange for bounties, since you have to spend them to
make them, so to speak. On one hand this may seem a little unweildy, but on
the other... True enough a town is depleting it's bullet supply by paying
bounties in bullets, but what it's actually doing is putting the ammo into
the hands of people more able and more expendable for the task at hand,
which is risking their lives to get rid of various dangerous varmints. This
makes the bounty hunter's more willing to go out and take care of the
town's problem, because they know they'll be at least breaking even in the
case of the ammo. Rationed bullets makes them less willing to just blast
away at everything just because they have artifact weapons in hand. It's
also a good way for a penniless character to aquire some much needed ammo,
since there are a lot of other ways to bring in bounties. On average a
bullet of moderate caliber is worth a gold dollar in barter value, while
higher caliber are worth more. The market varies wildly.
        So while I do agree that it is a little artificial upon first
glance, if you think of the functional aspect of it, maybe it isn't so
unrealistic after all. In the end it's all up to a G.M.'s personal taste,
tho.

B.J. Johnson

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

   Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 10:26:12 -0500
   From: Donovan Colbert <dcolbert@campus.mci.net>
Subject: Re: [gworld] Money

 I'd like to add one thing. Wealth is sought because it provides security,
or at the very least a sense of security.

 Again, bullets in Gamma World meet this criteria for being sought as
wealth. The difference between a bullet and minted currency is that a
bullet will be pretty much universally regarded as having some intrinsic
worth in Gamma Terra. Regardless of where you travel, bullets are likely to
be in short supply and high demand. On the other hand, a city controlled by
the Knights of Genetic Purity isn't likely to honor the face value of
currency printed by a city under Zoopremist control. Either one of them
will happily barter for weapons, though.

 I've pretty much done away with the domar completely. It exists, but it is
certainly overshadowed by the bullet.

 I think bullets and food would be the two most valuable commodoties you
could imagine in Gamma Terra.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

   Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 14:02:31 -0700
   From: "Jory M. Earl" <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: [gworld] Money

Food makes a good money; you could pay workers off in CALORIES, like
10,000 calories a day to workers.

The J-Man
GOC Systems
j-man@iname.com

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

   Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 19:05:53 -0400
   From: bigfella@bbs2.rmrc.net (Barclay Johnson)
Subject: Re: [gworld] Money

> I've pretty much done away with the domar completely. It exists, but it is
>certainly overshadowed by the bullet.

I don't think even the original designers of GW saw much point in the domar
either, but they still would have their uses. (I don't use 'em much, since
barter and gold are more prevalent.) If you think about it, all the
computerised I.D.'s may have created an almost cashless soctiety before the
apocalypse, with the domar being relegated to tokens for coin op and public
transit. An interesting scenario would be characters avoiding trouble with
security bots in an ancient mall by paying for everythig they loot, either
with domars left (to their eyes) as offerings, or by swiping I.D. cards
thru credit readers. This could lead to some interesting complications if
the ancient owner of the card had a bad credit rating. A stage I I.D. with
a fat credit rating sitting on some ancient computer database could be
nearly as valuable as a higher level I.D. in some situations (although a
Level IV or V I.D. could be theoretically be used to commandeer goods from
stores in a cashcard based society. High level I.D. cards could carry the
Pentagon's bank account, as well as it's power of command, as far as
ancient commercial systems are concerned.)

B.J. Johnson

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

   Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 20:51:47 -0600
   From: Moses Wildermuth <wolf1@ecity.net>
Subject: Re: [gworld] Money

On 23-Sep-97, Donovan Colbert wrote:

> I've pretty much done away with the domar completely. It exists, but it is
>certainly overshadowed by the bullet.
> I think bullets and food would be the two most valuable commodoties you
>could imagine in Gamma Terra.

I never thought about it this way before.  But I really like your bullet/money
concept.

Wolfy

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

   Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 09:52:37 +0100
   From: James <James@jpb-s.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [gworld] Money

I can see the problem with a common currency. To be honest, I'd never
really given the issue much thought. Money doesn't play much of a role in
my GW campaign ( the PCs are a bit like superheroes) so I've just allowed
domars to stay as quick and nasty way of simplify dealing with economic
transactions. If I were doing a bounty hunter game, than yes the different
currencies in the different settlements and exchange rates would be an
important issue.

However, regarding bullets, I must say the assumption that they are
universally useful can't be right. If we are talking about small isolated
communities who don't have any standard means of exchange, what the odds
they produce the same caliber bullets?
Regards,

--- James ----

http://www.jpb-s.demon.co.uk
Gamma World Appreciation &
Mutant Bikers of the Atomic Wastelands

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

   Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 15:25:40 -0400
   From: bigfella@bbs2.rmrc.net (Barclay Johnson)
Subject: Re: [gworld] Money

>However, regarding bullets, I must say the assumption that they are
>universally useful can't be right. If we are talking about small isolated
>communities who don't have any standard means of exchange, what the odds
>they produce the same caliber bullets?
>Regards,
>
>--- James ----

Admittedly, the issue of caliber does get a little hazy. There are,
however, more and less common types available, based on the availability of
certain types of guns. A settlement would be foolish to produce bullets
that couldn't fit in any sort of gun and try to use them as a trade item
(let alone in commonly found guns). On the other hand, it would be a good
safeguard against their own bullets being used against them, but that would
mean they'd have to take up smithing their own guns too, which is a much
more serious undertaking than milling bullets. (I should probably work out
some better rules for zipguns and Saturday Night Specials, i.e. home made
guns.)
        I generally assume that .38 is the most common caliber, followed by
.45's, since both were common among military and law enforcement before the
war (or 9mm, which I don't use much but I know is relatively common, as a
lighter replacement for the heavy .45's, which are difficult to carry and
conceal in more civilized environments.) Rifle rounds, magnum loads, and
shotgun shells occupy a higher niche in value since they are rarer and pack
more punch. Thus .38, .45, and 9mm all are about a dollar apiece, not
counting graft and inflation, while bigger loads are worth between $2 and
$5 depending on availability.

Take it easy
B.J.Johnson

P.S.:
Man, what I scary gun toting American I must be sounding like to you folks
from more rational countries like Britain and Australia. Most of my gun
rules are based loosely off a combination of Palladium's system, a
Dragon magazine article (issue 97, I think), and the slug throwers from
1st. and 2nd. edition, backed up with a bit of research and a lot of
John Woo movies.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

   Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 15:25:44 -0400
   From: bigfella@bbs2.rmrc.net (Barclay Johnson)
Subject: Re: [gworld] Money

>Food makes a good money; you could pay workers off in CALORIES, like
>10,000 calories a day to workers.

    Very true, but I doubt the standard would be in calories, since the
knowledge to measure calorie useage is a thing of the past, except maybe in
more high tech settlements. I suppose, upon thinking about it, that the
computer running a mech farm would probably measure it's payments in
calories, and the surrounding community would adopt it as an incompletely
understood term for a certain amount, mistaking it for a measure of volume
rather than a measure of energy potential.

   I think what would evolve would be a system similar to what existed
in feudal Japan, where the economy was based on the "koku", which
translated as enough rice to feed one man for one year. (I can't recall the
exact amount in bushels that was.) Feudal lords based their wealth on how
many koku of rice their lands produced, and in fact I think the ryo, or
gold coin, was based on koku as well. A system like that could arise very
easily in a agrarian city state after the apocalypse. Or perhaps a
community could adopt the cow standard, as many tribes in East Africa have,
but that works slightly differently, and often has as much to do with
family and social ties as it does with barter.

   There are a lot of ways food and function as money. Just the fact
that an adventurer is willing and able to go out and hunt the dangerous
beasts of Gamma Terra, and perhaps bring something back for trade with
local communities puts them in a position of wealth.

Take it easy
B.J. Johnson

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

   Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 16:57:25 +0000
   From: zodgrod@netxn.com
Subject: Re: [gworld] Money

Domars have always worked for me.  Granted, in any society, there
will still be a degree of barter, but the domar has never failed as a
standard currency for Gamma World.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

   Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 14:17:56 -0700
   From: "Jory M. Earl" <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: [gworld] Money

Food as a monetary resource works best in close-knit communities where
all the individuals have agreed to the rates of payment.

--
The J-Man
GOC Systems
j-man@iname.com

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

   Date: Wed, 01 Oct 1997 08:41:51 -0700
   From: Scott Swigart <sms@plaza.ds.adp.com>
Subject: Re: [gworld] Money

I assume that most of the guns have been built recently (vs. 400 year
old pistols that still work).  The guns are intentionally made pretty
sloppy so that they can tolerate a certain variance in the specs of a
bullet and still not jam.  Accuracy is somewhat sacrificed, but it's
still a lot better than a crossbow. I also assume that most of the
bullets have paper casings (instead of brass).  This was very common
just 100 years ago, and makes the manufacturing quite a bit easier.  The
down side is that they may not work if they get wet.

When characters enter a new area, there is a chance that the local
weapon shops will carry the correct caliber (or something close
enough).  Otherwise the characters have to leave a couple rounds behind
so the shop owner can take measurements and make copies (at an extra
price).

sms

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

   Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 19:38:57 +0100
   From: James <James@jpb-s.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [gworld] Money

>I generally assume that .38 is the most common caliber, followed by
>.45's, since both were common among military and law enforcement
>before the war (or 9mm, which I don't use much but I know is
>relatively common...

It depends how you look at it. If I were to look at it realistically, I'd
have to say I don't see the pre-cataclysm calibers as really relevant. Most
of the guns in my campaign have been created by local gunsmiths. And given
how tough the beasties (and people) in GW have become, I kind of suspect
the trend is towards larger caliber (elephant guns anyone?). Actually this
last bit was something that can out from discussion on this list a few
months back.

Fairly crude rifles with a variety of large calibers might be the sensible
solution. But at the same time, it does leave something to be desired.
There is a ring to the term ".45" and to me a Winchester repeater, well, it
just looks good. Besides, I really don't want the extra book keeping of
keeping track of how many bullets of each type a character is carrying. So
I basically just gloss over that level of detail. Which is where the
"domar" comes in handy.

Regards,

--- James ----

http://www.jpb-s.demon.co.uk
Gamma World Appreciation &
Mutant Bikers of the Atomic Wastelands

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

   Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 07:27:28 +0000
   From: zodgrod@netxn.com
Subject: Re: [gworld] Money

I run into one problem with bullets as currency: They're in limited
supply, and they're an exhaustable resource. Ordinarily, one or the
other wouldn't be a problem, but here we have a situation where the
world could conceivably run out of money.

Bullets could be used as currency for a limited time, then they run
out. Then come the yexils. Then they die out. Then...  Gamma Terra is
a rapidly changing world. Anyhting can happen, but probably won't
last for long.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

   Date: Sat, 4 Oct 1997 00:51:44 -0400
   From: bigfella@bbs2.rmrc.net (Barclay Johnson)
Subject: Re: [gworld] Money

>Domars have always worked for me.  Granted, in any society, there
>will still be a degree of barter, but the domar has never failed as a
>standard currency for Gamma World.

But it's only a standard currency if everyone agrees on their value. You've
got to admit that with no government to speak of barter becomes the main
rate of exchange. A Domar's just a chip of plastic, just like American
money is dull, fiberous green paper and slugs of low value metal. If
there's no authority to add value to what are in essence worthless items,
then what's valuable becomes more basic. What would you trade a starving
man in the desert, a fistful of bills or a bag of rice? Heck, even gold
makes more sense as currency because it has the  benefit of being beautiful
and rare, but I'd still take a couple clips or a power cell over a gold
necklace if I were out in the deadly wilderness of Gamma Terra.

>If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

I prefer to think of it as customizing and fine tuning. Why buy off the
rack when you can tailor it however you like ?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

   Date: Sat, 4 Oct 1997 20:33:09 +0100
   From: James <James@jpb-s.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [gworld] Money

That's an excellent point. In a small community you'd get rampant inflation
every time there was a significant fire fight. As in...

"Hello Mrs Nesbith"
"Hello Mrs Taylor. A Loaf of bread please."
"Certainly. That'll be 42 bullets."
"What! 42 bullets. Why just yesterday it was 16 bullets."
"Ah, yes, but the McClures and the Bradys were at it again last night..."
"Oh. I wish they'd just throw rocks at each other."
Regards,

--- James ----

http://www.jpb-s.demon.co.u
Gamma World Appreciation &
Mutant Bikers of the Atomic Wastelands

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

   Date: Sat, 4 Oct 1997 20:45:35 +0100
   From: James <James@jpb-s.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [gworld] Money

> rate of exchange. A Domar's just a chip of plastic, just like American
> money is dull, fiberous green paper and slugs of low value metal. If

Actually, I always had the impression that the domars were old credit
cards. I don't think it is ever said in as many words, but I have met
people who reached the same conclusion independently. And even if it isn't
canonical GW, I think it is a cute idea.

In one scenario I ran, the players discovered that was basically an fully
automated clothes shop from the days of the ancients (where were those
yexils?). Once the players got over the shock that nothing was trying to
kill them, they allowed the live metal shop assistants help them choose new
outfits. When it came time to pay, the players handed over a few domars and
were pleasantly surprised when, after swiping the cards into a machine, the
domars were returned to them. I am such a nice GM :-)

Regards,

--- James ----

http://www.jpb-s.demon.co.uk
Gamma World Appreciation &
Mutant Bikers of the Atomic Wastelands

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

   Date: Sat, 4 Oct 1997 15:45:53 -0400
   From: bigfella@bbs2.rmrc.net (Barclay Johnson)
Subject: Re: [gworld] Money

>Bullets could be used as currency for a limited time, then they run
>out. Then come the yexils. Then they die out. Then...

Well, as has been stated in other postings on this forum, bullets can be of
recent manufacture, so they're not totally exhaustible. As mutantkind
learns more of the old sciences, it stands to reason they'd figure out how
to manufacture bullets since they're so darn useful. But the facilities and
knowledge would be uncommon, so once again you have a rare and in demand
resource being "minted" by a few isolated sources.
  Plus it was never suggested that bullets are the sole currency
used, just a very universal and sought after bit of change in a larger
system of barter. If you're out of bullets but have a spare power cell or a
bottle of whisky, you can get stuff of equal value in exchange. I use the
gold piece values on my equipment table to keep it all relatively
organized. The price to buy something is usually the price to sell
something too.
  I don't think yexils would make very effective currency. Hard to
stuff into a cash register.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

   Date: Sat, 4 Oct 1997 15:46:15 -0400
   From: bigfella@bbs2.rmrc.net (Barclay Johnson)
Subject: Re: [gworld] Money

I guess my next question is how do guns age ? Metal does
last a while but you can't deny the functionality would degrade over 500
years. Guns with more plastic and ceramic parts may last longer.

  Admittedly stuff left out in a field would be unfireable in a
couple days. I suppose if a weapon were kept in clean storage, say in a
robot maintained military base or police arsenal, it'd last a long time,
but for how long? A weapon that was carefully cared for and handed down
from generation to generation would only last a couple hundred years, tops,
by my best guess. So I suppose you're right in that most guns in
circulation would be manufactured recently. I kind of turn a semi-blind eye
to it, because I like the effects of automatic weapons and the like, so I
assume they were built more durably and of better materials before the
Apocalypse. Delicate devices like laser weapons survive with a little
poetic licence too. (In this I go back to Jame's thoughts in one of his
recent postings in the  [gworld] genres thread. I just favor a recent
military technology flavor to my artifacts, just as he favors '30's
paraphenalia for his wizard characters.)

  I suppose this discussion does point up the rarity of Artifact
weapons. I assume that recently manufactured guns would still be based on
historical models, and hoarded blueprints, and would thus hang on to more
common calibers out of tradition more than anything else. Muskets would be
a lot easier to make and more common, followed by percussion revolvers and
simple rifles. I think only the most advanced settlements would have
rediscoverd the art of building automatics, but even those are pretty
simple once you know what parts to put together.

Food for thought.
B.J. Johnson

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

   Date: Sat, 4 Oct 1997 15:46:24 -0400
   From: bigfella@bbs2.rmrc.net (Barclay Johnson)
Subject: Re: [gworld] Money

> I kind of suspect the trend is towards larger caliber
> (elephant guns anyone?).
> Actually this last bit was something that came out from discussion
> on this list a few months back.

Lord knows my players are more interested in .45's and machine guns than
they are in Winchesters and .38's. The bigger the boom the better they like
it. One of my group has been bugging me for a chaingun, but I made it clear
he'd have to be one beefy mutant to even stand up while firing that thing.
I love putting 'em on robots, as I say on another posting.

>Fairly crude rifles with a variety of large calibers might be the sensible
>solution. But at the same time, it does leave something to be desired.
>There is a ring to the term ".45" and to me a Winchester repeater, well, it
>just looks good. Besides, I really don't want the extra book keeping of
>keeping track of how many bullets of each type a character is carrying. So
>I basically just gloss over that level of detail. Which is where the
>"domar" comes in handy.

That's why I make my players keep track of their own ammo. I trust them
enough to be honest about it. Domars are okay, but I usually ignore both
them and bullets in favor of simple gold pieces, which seems to be the
standard value the writers of the 1st. and 2nd. editions placed on stuff.
My guys have been out in the field a lot, so there haven't been many
transactions of any kind, except for trading hot lead with hostiles.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

   Date: Tue, 7 Oct 1997 14:22:40 +0000
   From: zodgrod@netxn.com
Subject: Re: [gworld] Money

> Actually, I always had the impression that the domars were old credit
> cards. I don't think it is ever said in as many words, but I have met
> people who reached the same conclusion independently. And even if it isn't
> canonical GW, I think it is a cute idea.

That's always been my impression, too, but I expanded it to include
anything that LOOKS like a credit card (copy cards, ATM cards, etc)
just to increase the number of domars in the world. More and more
people are owning more and more credit cards (I'm even considering
one), so in a hundred years or so, the world will be a sea of
plastic. All the descendants of humanity can remember is that these
cards were used as some sort of money, so they attach an arbitrary
value to them that becomes standardly accepted.

> In one scenario I ran, the players discovered that was basically an fully
> automated clothes shop from the days of the ancients (where were those
> yexils?). Once the players got over the shock that nothing was trying to
> kill them, they allowed the live metal shop assistants help them choose new
> outfits. When it came time to pay, the players handed over a few domars and
> were pleasantly surprised when, after swiping the cards into a machine, the
> domars were returned to them. I am such a nice GM :-)

Feed the Yexils! Feed the Yexils!!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

   Date: Mon, 06 Oct 1997 16:54:56 -0500
   From: Donovan Colbert <dcolbert@campus.mci.net>
Subject: Re: [gworld] Money

 I think it all comes down to how you run your campaign. I use the domar,
but really rely on ammo as the motivating factory. Ammo and food are what
the game is all about. Without those two things, you don't survive. As far
as arms are concerned, I'm playing a "shortly after the cataclysm"
scenario. None of this 25th century stuff. Maybe 22nd century. They're
still using the pre cataclysm weapons, and no one locally is making guns of
any reliability or quality.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

   Date: Tue, 7 Oct 1997 14:22:40 +0000
   From: zodgrod@netxn.com
Subject: Re: [gworld] Money


> Well, as has been stated in other postings on this forum, bullets can be of
> recent manufacture, so they're not totally exhaustible. As mutantkind
> learns more of the old sciences, it stands to reason they'd figure out how
> to manufacture bullets since they're so darn useful. But the facilities and
> knowledge would be uncommon, so once again you have a rare and in demand
> resource being "minted" by a few isolated sources.
>         Plus it was never suggested that bullets are the sole currency
> used, just a very universal and sought after bit of change in a larger
> system of barter. If you're out of bullets but have a spare power cell or a
> bottle of whisky, you can get stuff of equal value in exchange. I use the
> gold piece values on my equipment table to keep it all relatively
> organized. The price to buy something is usually the price to sell
> something too.

That would work. I still keep my campaign at the technology level
level of flintlocks, but inventions are coming a bit faster. I'm
assuming the only reason nobody ever used bullets with a casing is
nobody ever THOUGHT of it. If they found one made by another culture,
and opened it up it wouldn't be very hard to duplicate.

My campaign flavor resembles a bizarre fantasy world more than
anything, so I use good old gold and silver since domars are in
limited supply and some nations will want to mint their own currency.

The description of domars has changed in almost every edition of the
rules, and I'm STILL not sure just what a domar is.... what do all of
you consider them to be?

Brandon

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

   Date: Tue, 7 Oct 1997 15:10:30 -0400
   From: bigfella@bbs2.rmrc.net (Barclay Johnson)
Subject: Re: [gworld] Money

>> rate of exchange. A Domar's just a chip of plastic, just like American
>> money is dull, fiberous green paper and slugs of low value metal. If
>
>Actually, I always had the impression that the domars were old credit
>cards. I don't think it is ever said in as many words, but I have met
>people who reached the same conclusion independently. And even if it isn't
>canonical GW, I think it is a cute idea.

What's a canon for but to mess around with? I think the idea of domars as
old smart cards is a great idea. I posted a few thoughts on the subject
myself a couple weeks ago, along the thought that the old Stage I-V I.D.'s
could hold purchasing power as well. The whole plastic chips idea a little
implausible when anything, from cars to candy bars, can be purchased with a
cardswipe. Loose change is an annoyance that would be done away with in the
future.

>In one scenario I ran, the players discovered that was basically an fully
>automated clothes shop from the days of the ancients (where were those
>yexils?). Once the players got over the shock that nothing was trying to
>kill them, they allowed the live metal shop assistants help them choose new
>outfits. When it came time to pay, the players handed over a few domars and
>were pleasantly surprised when, after swiping the cards into a machine, the
>domars were returned to them. I am such a nice GM :-)

Sounds like a great scenario, a nice departure from the kill or be killed
attitude that can arise.

It brings up the idea of vending machines, too. Heck, in Japan you can get
almost anything out of a vending machine, from shoes to porno-mags. It
would be interesting if pre-holocaust America (or Britain) adopted that
more as better security and public order made vandalism and theft less of a
worry. How would the barbaric mutant descendants respond to that sort of
thing, since sliding a card thru works a lot better than bashing in the
glass and taking what you want.

B.J. Johnson

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

   Date: Tue, 7 Oct 1997 15:10:35 -0400
   From: bigfella@bbs2.rmrc.net (Barclay Johnson)
Subject: Re: [gworld] Money

>That's an excellent point. In a small community you'd get rampant inflation
>every time there was a significant fire fight. As in...
>
>"Hello Mrs Nesbith"
>"Hello Mrs Taylor. A Loaf of bread please."
>"Certainly. That'll be 42 bullets."
>"What! 42 bullets. Why just yesterday it was 16 bullets."
>"Ah, yes, but the McClures and the Bradys were at it again last night..."
>"Oh. I wish they'd just throw rocks at each other."
>Regards,
>
>--- James ----

I'm looking forward to the Gamma World Townswomen's Guild putting on their
re-enactment of the Battle of Pearl Harbour.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

   Date: Tue, 07 Oct 1997 18:15:28 -0600
   From: Moses Wildermuth <wolf1@ecity.net>
Subject: Re: [gworld] Money

>That's an excellent point. In a small community you'd get rampant
>inflation every time there was a significant fire fight. As in...

Maybe I'm not thinking right but wouldn't it work the other way around?
Since there were suddenly less bullets each one would be worth more.

Then everything would cost less, but so would everyone's paycheck be
less therefore it would be a depression/recession.
Just love economics.  :{>

Wolfy

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

   Date: Tue, 07 Oct 1997 18:22:33 -0600
   From: Moses Wildermuth <wolf1@ecity.net>
Subject: Re: [gworld] Money

I currently get that same impression about domars(old credit cards), but each
edition changed its money system.  I do like that swipe/give back idea.  If
you want to be real nice you can include one of those fancy universal cards in
a stack of regular domars, and see if any picks up on it, before they spend it
on their next visit to the local tavern.

Speaking of all the various money systems used,  anybody remember the exchange
rate between gold peices, domars, and dahlers(GW3)?  :{>
--
:{>  Wolfy

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

   Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 13:24:16 -0400
   From: Reginald Blue <rvb@trsvr.tr.unisys.com>
Subject: RE: [gworld] Money

>That's an excellent point. In a small community you'd get rampant
>inflation every time there was a significant fire fight. As in...

I dont think I agree with you here.  Rampant inflation should only occur if
the market were suddenly flooded with bullets:

"Hello Mrs Nesbith"
"Hello Mrs Taylor. A Loaf of bread please."
"Certainly. That'll be 42 bullets."
"What! 42 bullets. Why just yesterday it was 16 bullets."
"Ah, yes, but a bunch of adventurers showed up and flooded the town market
with hundreds of bullets that they found somewhere.  Bullets are a dime a
dozen at the moment."
"Darn those adventurers!  I'm gonna kill 'em!"

This is supposedly what happened during the gold rush in California when
gold was so prevalent.  The cost of items went berserk.  (A dozen eggs for
$50???)

Reggie

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

   Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 14:07:10 -0400
   From: bigfella@bbs2.rmrc.net (Barclay Johnson)
Subject: Re: [gworld] Money

> I think it all comes down to how you run your campaign. I use the domar,
>but really rely on ammo as the motivating factory. Ammo and food are what
>the game is all about. Without those two things, you don't survive. As far
>as arms are concerned, I'm playing a "shortly after the cataclysm"
>scenario. None of this 25th century stuff. Maybe 22nd century. They're
>still using the pre cataclysm weapons, and no one locally is making guns of
>any reliability or quality.
>

That's about the size of it in my campaign too. As has been brought up
before on the forum about world styles, I prefer a wilder and woolyer, more
anarchic world than one that's kind of "Civilization on the Mend". Less
civilization means more dependance on basic commodities.

  It's sort of a double edged sword, in that it's not as easy to
mystify and confuse them with the high technology, but on the other hand
there's a lot of cool special effects for present and near future military
technology that add to the flavor of the game. Killer bunnies with M-16's
push more buttons than killer bunnies with blaster rifles, since my players
understand and identify with the danger of the conventional weapons versus
the hypothetical danger of something that never existed.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

   Date: Wed, 08 Oct 1997 17:10:22 -0600
   From: Moses Wildermuth <wolf1@ecity.net>
Subject: Re: [gworld] Money

This is not a bad way to go, and I agree with the whole "premise" behind
bulletts = money.  But I never ran a campaign where food and bullets were the
only motivating factor.  In fact most of the time, both were in ample
supply(just generous I guess), but it gave the characters more chance to
explore every aspect of their characters.  It also was more suited to GW3/GW4
rules.

Wolfy

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

   Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 02:28:40 -0400 (EDT)
   From: RCrichton@aol.com
Subject: Re: [gworld] Money

In a message dated 97-10-07 18:00:52 EDT, you write:

> "What! 42 bullets. Why just yesterday it was 16 bullets."
>  "Ah, yes, but the McClures and the Bradys were at it again last night..."
>  "Oh. I wish they'd just throw rocks at each other."

I should be the other way around- as the bullet supply drops, the individual
value of each bullet goes up.
-Bob

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

   Date: Thu, 09 Oct 1997 14:00:20 -0700
   From: "Jory M. Earl" <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: [gworld] Money

Ahh yes, Reg, I remember that "gold rush" days stuff.  Yes, prices did
go totally crazy.

--
The J-Man
GOC Systems
j-man@iname.com

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

   Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 09:33:04 +1000 (EST)
   From: PATRICK BURKE <p1.burke@student.qut.edu.au>
Subject: Re: [gworld] Money

On Tue, 7 Oct 1997, Moses Wildermuth wrote:
> I currently get that same impression about domars(old credit cards), but each
> edition changed its money system.  I do like that swipe/give back idea.  If
> you want to be real nice you can include one of those fancy universal cards in
> a stack of regular domars, and see if any picks up on it, before they spend it
> on their next visit to the local tavern.
>
> Speaking of all the various money systems used,  anybody remember the exchange
> rate between gold peices, domars, and dahlers(GW3)?  :{>
> --
> :{>  Wolfy

Normally gp -> what-ever currency is 1:1 for ease of integration to other
TSR products

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

   Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 00:45:01 -0400
   From: bigfella@bbs2.rmrc.net (Barclay Johnson)
Subject: Re: [gworld] Money

>Maybe I'm not thinking right but wouldn't it work the other way around?  Since
>there were suddenly less bullets each one would be worth more.  Then
>everything would cost less, but so would everyone's paycheck be less there
>fore it would be a depression/recession.  Just love economics.  :{>
>
>Wolfy

        Well, there's a high chance that there's be less paychecks to hand
out after a substantial reduction in bullet supply, depending on how many
members of the community had ...*ahem* cashed in. (Actually, paychecks may
not be an applicable measure, since this is really based more on person to
person trade, not employer/employee relations, not that a wealthy mutant
townsman wouldn't pay his flunkies in bullets (and probably only those he
trusted at that).
        The other thing to consider is that with the help of a good money
management system (a gun) the ones with more bullets have a substantial
effect on rates of exchange. Put's a different spin on the concept of
"haves and have-nots" as well as "It takes money to make money."

B.J. Johnson

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

   Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 00:45:10 -0400
   From: bigfella@bbs2.rmrc.net (Barclay Johnson)
Subject: Re: [gworld] Money

>That would work. I still keep my campaign at the technology level
>level of flintlocks, but inventions are coming a bit faster. I'm
>assuming the only reason nobody ever used bullets with a casing is
>nobody ever THOUGHT of it. If they found one made by another culture,
>and opened it up it wouldn't be very hard to duplicate.

         Well, in the golden age of pike and shot, thru the Napoleonic era
and all the way up to the Civil War, pre-packaged loads were common, and
usually wrapped in paper or something similar, since the paper could then
be used as wadding for the gun. The old six shooters that the early cowboys
used were percussion revolvers loaded in a similar fashion to flinlocks in
that you poured the powder into the chamber by hand and tamped the bullet
down over it. (I should know, I own a replica of an old Colt Navy Model
that loads in that fashion.) Self contained loads in brass casings arose
around the American Civil War. Brass casings are harder to manufacture tech
wise than just wrapping a measure of gunpowder and a lead ball in a paper
package, but if the settlement were advanced enough anything is possible,
and bullet casings are recycleable, I suppose.

>My campaign flavor resembles a bizarre fantasy world more than
>anything, so I use good old gold and silver since domars are in
>limited supply and some nations will want to mint their own currency.

Actually, in a flintlock based campaign, gunpowder would probably literally
be worth it's weight in gold, more than bullets or shot. In terms of barter
a flask of good gunpowder would have a lot of purchasing power, and would
be useful even if you didn't have a gun. Just be mindful of sparks and open
flames.

>The description of domars has changed in almost every edition of the
>rules, and I'm STILL not sure just what a domar is.... what do all of
>you consider them to be?

I just think the designers liked the word "domar" as an exotic sounding
name for currency (like sheckel, or ruble, or drachma, or yap stone), and
tossed it in there. In the 1st. and 2nd. edition they're plastic coins of
different colors and patterns, now meaningless since the Apocalypse. On one
hand they make sense as currency since they are impossible to counterfiet
with the technology available in Gamma Terra, but on the other hand who
would want to, since in a world where the line between life and death is a
quick draw and whether your next meal kills you before you kill it, they're
pretty much useless except as decoration.
        The idea that they're credit cards is a good one, but couldn't
I.D.'s serve that purpose as well? What's the difference between a credit
card and a stage I I.D. in real life, anyway?
        An interesting thought strikes me. Perhaps domars could take on a
role similar to Chinese Spirit Money (a custom in which they burn special
fake money for use by their departed loved ones in the afterlife. Kind of
like a metaphysical Western Union.), since they are strongly associated
with the Ancients. Maybe they serve more of a luck or religious purpose
than actual currency, given as offerings at shrines to the ancients.

B.J. Johnson

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

   Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 08:50:06 +0000
   From: zodgrod@netxn.com
Subject: Re: [gworld] Money

I like the idea of bullets as currency, but gold and silver fit the
flavor of my campaign better. I even considered power cells as
currency, but the bookkeeping would be obscene ("Well, you have 2
hydrogens at 90%, 1 at 20%,  and a chemical cell at 55%. Say, can I
borrow one of those for my calculator? We'll call it my accounting
fee.").

Whatever currency you use, it's going to affect the flavor of the
game. Bullets will give more of a "Mad Max" feel to the game, while I
use stuff I learned from D&D to give it a fantasy feel (albeit a
bizarre fantasy with blaster-armed knights riding giant tarantulas to
do battle with the warbot ravaging the countryside). I'd actually
like to know what everybody else uses, and to what effect.

I just like the simplicity of the domar, and even make my gold pieces
worth that same domar (silvers are 1/20 domar). If my players argue,
I beat 'em with a Crown Royal bag full of old lead minis.

Brandon

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

   Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 09:13:31 +0000
   From: zodgrod@netxn.com
Subject: Re: [gworld] Money

> Actually, in a flintlock based campaign, gunpowder would probably literally
> be worth it's weight in gold, more than bullets or shot. In terms of barter
> a flask of good gunpowder would have a lot of purchasing power, and would
> be useful even if you didn't have a gun. Just be mindful of sparks and open
> flames.

True, but would the governments want the commoners to have the
ability to "mint" their own gunpowder currency? I like having domars
or some other cash around so I have a basis for the barter.

>         The idea that they're credit cards is a good one, but couldn't
> I.D.'s serve that purpose as well? What's the difference between a credit
> card and a stage I I.D. in real life, anyway?

My best idea was that domars were just any cards of the Ancients. A
Visa, a Mastercard, my library card, my Kinko's copy card... I have 9
domars in my wallet right now, and your average 24th century citizen
will probably have a lot more. Damn. Some bat-winged telepathic geek
is gonna SPEND my library card. Bummer.

>         An interesting thought strikes me. Perhaps domars could take on a
> role similar to Chinese Spirit Money (a custom in which they burn special
> fake money for use by their departed loved ones in the afterlife. Kind of
> like a metaphysical Western Union.), since they are strongly associated
> with the Ancients. Maybe they serve more of a luck or religious purpose
> than actual currency, given as offerings at shrines to the ancients.

That's the only reason I can see for the domar having any value at
all. There's no government to back them up, and the plastic isn't
worth a whole lot. The sentients of Gamma Terra probably use domars
because the Ancients used domars ("What are those, Daddy?" "I'm not
sure, but the Ancients used to trade them for things they needed. I
think they're valuable. Let's see if Zeke will give us a Podog for
them.")

"Shrines to the Ancients" can be almost anything in Gamma World!  The
worshipper makes his offering of domars at the shrine of Seffena
Leffen, and is rewarded by the shrine's live metal with a gift of the
ancient delicacy "Eye Scream" (So called because that's where it
hurts when you eat it too fast)

Brandon

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

   Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 19:36:15 +0100
   From: James <James@jpb-s.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [gworld] Money

Dang! You are absolutely right. And to think I even did a degree in the
subject. How embarrassing :(

Regards,

--- James ----

http://www.jpb-s.demon.co.uk
Gamma World Appreciation &
Mutant Bikers of the Atomic Wastelands

----------
> Maybe I'm not thinking right but wouldn't it work the other way around?
Since
> there were suddenly less bullets each one would be worth more.  Then
> everything would cost less, but so would everyone's paycheck be less
there
> fore it would be a depression/recession.  Just love economics.  :{>
> Wolfy
>
> On 04-Oct-97, James wrote:
> >That's an excellent point. In a small community you'd get rampant
inflation
> >every time there was a significant fire fight. As in...
>

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

   Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 18:03:33 -0600
   From: Moses Wildermuth <wolf1@ecity.net>
Subject: Re: [gworld] Money

Actually I looked it up. In GW3 it was one 8 oz. gold coin is equal to 10
domars (which were plastic disks of uniform size and shape).  every
dahler(translucent golden plastic with 3D pictures in the surface) was worth 5
gold pieces(or 40 ozs. of gold!!!)

Wolfy

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

   Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 18:17:48 -0600
   From: Moses Wildermuth <wolf1@ecity.net>
Subject: Re: [gworld] Money

size and shape).  every
dahler(translucent golden plastic with 3D pictures in the surface)
was worth 5 gold pieces(or 40 ozs. of gold!!!)

Wolfy

P.S. gems were rarely used but ranged in value from 100 to 1000 gp each.
Despite this system of currency used by all intelligent races across the
wilderness, barter remains primary method of trade and exchange.

 Remember these views are from third edition rule book, and as such are still
the intellectual property of someone else therefore I'm going to do it anyway
I want to.  Just thought someone might be interested.   haha

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

   Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 00:09:41 -0400 (EDT)
   From: Kveldulf@aol.com
Subject: Re: [gworld] Money

In a message dated 97-10-10 03:14:53 EDT, you write:

<< In a message dated 97-10-07 18:00:52 EDT, you write:

 > "What! 42 bullets. Why just yesterday it was 16 bullets."
 >  "Ah, yes, but the McClures and the Bradys were at it again last night..."
 >  "Oh. I wish they'd just throw rocks at each other."
 I should be the other way around- as the bullet supply drops, the individual
 value of each bullet goes up.
 -Bob
  >>

"Trader Joe, what do ya mean ya're out a' bullets to make change for ma'
purchase?
Oh - 'nuther big firefight up on the mountain lass night.
What?  Oh all right, but just this once.  Here's a 20-round clip a' 9mm's;
 gimme 4 axe-handles and two spiked clubs fer change an' we'll call it even."
 ; )

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

   Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 00:33:04 -0400 (EDT)
   From: Kveldulf@aol.com
Subject: Re: [gworld] Money vs the Yexils

In a message dated 97-10-10 04:22:58 EDT, you write:

> help them choose new outfits. When it came time to pay, the players
> handed over a few domars and were pleasantly surprised when, after
> swiping the cards into a machine, the domars were returned to them.
> I am such a nice GM :-)

 Feed the Yexils! Feed the Yexils!!
  >>

This could get really complicated if you decide Yexils can eat any plastic:

"Hey Roy, ya here what happened to ol' Harvey on the other side uh the
mountain?  It was real bad - he'd juss sold a bunch a grain in town for a
sackful o' domars.  Didn't have 'em in the house more'n a few hours when,
best as we can tell, a bunch of starving Yexils smelt out the domars an
attacked 'im.  All we found a' him was some bones and a pair of cotton
undershorts - they chewed his polyester-blend shirt-n-pants right offa him.
 Terrible.  Sheriff says there'll be a posse headin' out ta track down the
varmints, but they're probably a good 2 days flight off by now."

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

   Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 11:38:55 +0100
   From: James <James@jpb-s.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [gworld] Money

> In one scenario I ran, the players discovered that was basically an
> fully automated clothes shop from the days of the ancients

The above tit-bit came from the Rosewood Ghost's scenario (available from
my or Kerry's site). The incident isn't probably mentioned there because I
tend to write only the most basic of notes for a scenario and wing the
rest. I think the game comes across fresher that way.

Regards,

--- James ----

http://www.jpb-s.demon.co.uk / Gamma World Appreciation & Mutant Bikers of
the Atomic Wastelands

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

   Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 10:25:33 -0400
   From: Slick <gweedo@shadow.net>
Subject: Re: [gworld] Money

>The description of domars has changed in almost every edition of the
>rules, and I'm STILL not sure just what a domar is.... what do all of
>you consider them to be?

As with quite a few people on this list, I consider the domar as being
old credit cards, or the like.  I have read on many occasions in various
magazine articles, and in the books themselves, that "allude" to this end.
Nothing every says that this is true, but there is always just a feeling
that this is what they are.

trueSpace Tips -> http://www.shadow.net/john

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

   Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 19:47:02 +0000
   From: CdBd3rd <cdbd3rd@postoffice.worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [gworld] Money

zodgrod@netxn.com wrote:
> My best idea was that domars were just any cards of the Ancients. A
> Visa, a Mastercard, my library card, my Kinko's copy card... I have 9
> domars in my wallet right now, and your average 24th century citizen
> will probably have a lot more. Damn. Some bat-winged telepathic geek
> is gonna SPEND my library card. Bummer.

I'm really starting to like that idea for domars and given that most
futuristic movies assume a credit based economy, the whole idea gains
merit.
- out of curiosity, I checked my 'domar value':  26 in my wallet  [video
store cards, laminated ID's, casino club cards, etc.] almost as many in
the wife's purse, and 7 sitting on the desk - hey! i'm ready for the
nukes to go!!!
(Oh, BULLETS are the local currency?? OK, well, I've got.....
heh-heh!)
--
[Devo] Remembers F.o.C. on 8-Track!
[G.W.] REVEL IN THE DIVINE RADIANT GLORY !!!
[Gary] CdBd3rd@Worldnet.ATT.Net
http://home.att.net/~cdbd3rd/home.html

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

   Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 22:50:22 -0400
   From: bigfella@bbs2.rmrc.net (Barclay Johnson)
Subject: Re: [gworld] Money

>I like the idea of bullets as currency, but gold and silver fit the
>flavor of my campaign better. I even considered power cells as
>currency, but the bookkeeping would be obscene ("Well, you have 2
>hydrogens at 90%, 1 at 20%,  and a chemical cell at 55%. Say, can I
>borrow one of those for my calculator? We'll call it my accounting
>fee.").

Well, unless they got a battery tester, it's let the buyer beware. Passing
off dead power cells is a good way to get front row seats at a lynching in
the New West.

>Whatever currency you use, it's going to affect the flavor of the
>game. Bullets will give more of a "Mad Max" feel to the game, while I
>use stuff I learned from D&D to give it a fantasy feel (albeit a
>bizarre fantasy with blaster-armed knights riding giant tarantulas to
>do battle with the warbot ravaging the countryside). I'd actually
>like to know what everybody else uses, and to what effect.
>
>I just like the simplicity of the domar, and even make my gold pieces
>worth that same domar (silvers are 1/20 domar). If my players argue,
>I beat 'em with a Crown Royal bag full of old lead minis.

I think at the bottom it's a question of how much civilization has rebuilt
itself in the campaign. If there's enough society for everyone to agree on
values of currency, then it's a good way to go. If it's every sentient for
itself, then barter's gonna be more common than cash. If you want to put it
on a scale, and can handle the book keeping, then value can be different in
different areas. Currency is a sure sign of civilization, and could be used
as a clue that characters are near a settlement. (Domars and letters in the
pockets of a dead body are a good way to intimate a nearby community before
they even see the smoke rising from the chimneys.) The only thing I would
caution against is folks living on a primitive level outside of society
accepting money, since it's not very realistic. Red Death members, for
example (in the sense of the rampaging hordes described in the 1st. and
2nd. edition, not the society of assassins they seem to have become in the
3rd. and 4th.) probably would laugh in your face if you offered them money,
but may be willing to do what you want for, say, food or liquor. Just make
sure you pay them *after* they're done if it's booze you're paying them
with.
B.J. Johnson

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

   Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 22:50:26 -0400
   From: bigfella@bbs2.rmrc.net (Barclay Johnson)
Subject: Re: [gworld] Money

 >True, but would the governments want the commoners to have the
>ability to "mint" their own gunpowder currency? I like having domars
>or some other cash around so I have a basis for the barter.

        If the commoners had the ability to "mint" gunpowder, they'd
probably be the government themselves in pretty short order. Both
conditions you describe are of a culture with a fairly central authority
structure, both in the restriction of weapons and in the establishment of
currency values. In a more anarchic society, whoever's got the stuff makes
their own rules, and it's up to them to decide how to keep it or give it
away. ("Whut's worth more, this bullet or me not killing you with it?"
"Ulp...Would you like paper of plastic, sir?")

>My best idea was that domars were just any cards of the Ancients. A
>Visa, a Mastercard, my library card, my Kinko's copy card... I have 9
>domars in my wallet right now, and your average 24th century citizen
>will probably have a lot more. Damn. Some bat-winged telepathic geek
>is gonna SPEND my library card. Bummer.

        That makes a heck of a lot more sense than the poker chips described in
the first or second edition (although it's also a question of context. In
the late '90's when smartcards are everyplace, it's more logical than it
may have been in the '70's.)

>That's the only reason I can see for the domar having any value at
>all. There's no government to back them up, and the plastic isn't
>worth a whole lot. The sentients of Gamma Terra probably use domars
>because the Ancients used domars ("What are those, Daddy?" "I'm not
>sure, but the Ancients used to trade them for things they needed. I
>think they're valuable. Let's see if Zeke will give us a Podog for
>them.")

If Zeke's a religious type, then the answer would probably be yes. Currency
of that kind may have extra value to Restorationists and Archivists, but
not as much to Seekers or really anti-culture Zoopremicists. If Zeke's more
of a materialist, he may ask for a power cell or a bottle of that apple
wine Ma makes. I love barter, it's a virtual gold mine for roleplaying. Of
course getting the full value for that chicken can distract from the
action, so I agree that a more book keeping free system works if the GM's
got other things to worry about. Haggling over bullets or goats can be a
nice distraction, but it shouldn't take over the whole game.

>"Shrines to the Ancients" can be almost anything in Gamma World!  The
>worshipper makes his offering of domars at the shrine of Seffena
>Leffen, and is rewarded by the shrine's live metal with a gift of the
>ancient delicacy "Eye Scream" (So called because that's where it
>hurts when you eat it too fast)

        Then "Gut Scream" as you try to digest 500 year old dairy products.
They'd be better off just sticking to the twinkies. Those should still be
good after five centuries.
        Still, cash cards have a lot of potential for interaction with
ancient commercial ruins. And putting the right domar in the right slot
could open up a whole new world for the characters under your system. And
as I said before, what if the ancient owner of the card had bad credit, or
was wanted by the cops? Interesting...
         ONe question, tho. How do you handle I.D.'s then ? What makes them
different from all the other domars. Do I.D.'s take some other form in your
campaign, like rings or bracelets or such?

B.J. Johnson

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

   Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 08:29:22 -0400
   From: Slick <gweedo@shadow.net>
Subject: Re: [gworld] Money

> Whatever currency you use, it's going to affect the flavor of the
> game. Bullets will give more of a "Mad Max" feel to the game, while I
> use stuff I learned from D&D to give it a fantasy feel (albeit a
> bizarre fantasy with blaster-armed knights riding giant tarantulas to
> do battle with the warbot ravaging the countryside). I'd actually
> like to know what everybody else uses, and to what effect.
>
> I just like the simplicity of the domar, and even make my gold pieces
> worth that same domar (silvers are 1/20 domar). If my players argue,
> I beat 'em with a Crown Royal bag full of old lead minis.


I personally use Domars, Gold, and Silver.  And like yourself place a
gold nugget (The gold in my campaign is shaped like a rounded
triangular  chunk) the same worth as the domar, and silver is 1/20 of a
gold/domar.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

   Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 05:49:54 PDT
   From: "Tom Foster" <yoiko99@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [gworld] Money

I'd find the argument that the domar as being a credit card pretty
believable, or at least a 'cash card' of some type. I'm of the opinion
that we're moving towards a 'cashless' society as it is (saw something
on Good Morning America about testing of cash cards already), and that
paper money will either go underground to be used for illegal dealings
with fences, or will dissappear altogether.

Tom F.


>Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 10:25:33 -0400
>From: Slick <gweedo@shadow.net>
>Subject: Re: [gworld] Money
>
>>The description of domars has changed in almost every edition of the
>>rules, and I'm STILL not sure just what a domar is.... what do all of
>>you consider them to be?
>
>
>As with quite a few people on this list, I consider the domar as being
>old credit cards, or the like.  I have read on many occasions in
various
>magazine articles, and in the books themselves, that "allude" to this
end.
>Nothing every says that this is true, but there is always just a
feeling
>that this is what they are.
>
>
>--------------------------------------------------------
>    trueSpace Tips -> http://www.shadow.net/john
>

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

   Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 07:26:41 +0000
   From: zodgrod@netxn.com
Subject: Re: [gworld] Money

>          ONe question, tho. How do you handle I.D.'s then ? What makes them
> different from all the other domars. Do I.D.'s take some other form in your
> campaign, like rings or bracelets or such?
>

I like to vary the ID's in my game. I also keep 90% of them keyed to
specific sites just to keep the ID's from being too powerful. If the
domar has a picture of an Ancient on it, it's probably a "special"
domar (Kinda like an enchanted gold piece would be in D&D). Another
option I've been toying with is the Shadowrun-derived credstick. This
little electronic "magic wand" has all of the user's personal
information, credit balance, driving record, etc. stored inside of
it. A lot of them are dead ("Aw, Zeke. This magic wand's all out of
magic."), but the functional credsticks work wonders with living
metal, computers, etc.  That would almost phase out what would become
the Domar, so I'd put the campaign on a gold or silver standard.

This brings up another question: What would the rarity of gold be in
a Gamma World setting, seeing as gold is being used more and more for
conductors?  Imagine recreating the Seven Cities of Cibola legend in
GW. Gold might not pave the streets, but it would line almost
everything in the high-tech facilities...

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

   Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 12:04:37 -0400
   From: bigfella@bbs2.rmrc.net (Barclay Johnson)
Subject: Re: [gworld] Money

>I once ran a scenario where the players encountered a still active
>military base, where all the security stations and everything else were
>ran on domars.  Security Robotoids would charge a 'fee' for their
>services (like if the party stumbled into a forbidden area and the
>robots had to usher them out).  the scenario was ran purely from the
>comical stand point and only on character died.
>
>(The character in question had refused to pay for using the restrooms
>and actually attacked the automated coin delivery system.  It of course
>defended itself by pounding him into pulp.).  :)

Killed by a pay toilet? Not only is that a hell of a way to go, it's a hell
of a thing to leave on your tombstone.

Was the situation a result of exisiting programming, or had the central
computer and it's robots developed "greed" as a programming aberration?
SOunds like a fun premise for taking the hard edge off an ancient military
base.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

   Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 10:44:35 -0700
   From: dturner@s3.com
Subject: Re[2]: [gworld] Money

zodgrod@netxn.com wrote:
> My best idea was that domars were just any cards of the Ancients. A
> Visa, a Mastercard, my library card, my Kinko's copy card... I have 9
> domars in my wallet right now, and your average 24th century citizen
> will probably have a lot more. Damn. Some bat-winged telepathic geek
> is gonna SPEND my library card. Bummer.

I'm really starting to like that idea for domars and given that most
futuristic movies assume a credit based economy, the whole idea gains
merit.

My only problem with the Idea of Domars for money is supply and
demand. if we assume (And I know what happens when we assume) the on
average everyone has about 10 dolmars on them and just for the sake
of argument that the population of gamma-tara is 1/100 of what it is
today that means that on average there is 1000 dolmars per person.

ok so far so good. However that assumes that EVERY SINGLE credit
card, ID, video rental cars,etc survives the bomb and the fall of
society and fires and floods and what ever. so lets say that only 50%
of the cards survive (I think I am being generous with that, the real
number I think should be more like 10%) that leaves 500 dolmars per
person. again this assumes that all the surviving cards have been
found and are in circulation. it sounds like a lot until you realize
1. thats not a lot of buying power
2. and that's about 1/2 of the charters are offered in payment in the
first part of one adventure (data is from the module "Mutant Master")

my second objection is that we(real world) are moving to having less
cards. with the advent of centralized banking, and a centralized
government computes you might have only 3 or 4 cards. you would have
an universal ID that has encoded on it your health records, insurance
into, driver license,  etc, a combination ATM and credit card(I
already have one). and maybe one or two others.

Heck we're talking about a society with super computers and
holographic tech. you might just have one programmable card that
projects the correct info when activated. (press one for your bubble
car license, two for your ATM, etc)

So the number of available dolmars per person could be as low 150 or
50.

Well that's my two cents (or should I say GP)(BTW if you use gold as
your standard where is all this minted gold coming from? when was the
last time YOU saw a gold coin?)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

   Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 20:02:38 +0100
   From: James <James@jpb-s.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [gworld] Money

Well it not necessarily 1 card 1 domar. A Gold card has got be worth more
than a drab library card. Here in the UK we recently we had Phone cards
with DragonLance pictures. Those have got worth something, wouldn't you
say?

Regards,

--- James ----

http://www.jpb-s.demon.co.uk
Gamma World Appreciation &
Mutant Bikers of the Atomic Wastelands

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

   Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 20:30:06 +0000
   From: zodgrod@netxn.com
Subject: Re: [gworld] Money

Okay, here it is.

The paper currency of the United States has already undergone some
changes, and by the early 2000's, we should see a whole new set of
paper bills in the same style as the new $100 bill.

In the late 22nd century, the acids and toxins in the atmosphere, not
to mention the sweat from all the Ph-imbalanced people shortened the
useful life of paper money considerably, so the next step was to
reintroduce the bills in a thin, paper-like polymer with no
biodegradability and an incredibly long lifespan. The new bills were
the same recognizable size as the old, but were virtually
indestructible, being immune to almost anything short of  deliberate
cutting with a knife or scissors. Each contained colorful holographic
images to deter counterfeiting and attempt to rekindle a dying faith
in the United States Government..

In 2203, the Federal Government introduced the credstick, a "wand"
about the length of a pencil and twice the diameter. This electronic
device contained all of the user's personal information, including
credit balance, driving record and medical information.  Harsh
penalties were enstated for tampering with any credstick, and only
one person outside the Government was ever known to have cracked
the encryption anyway (She disappeared shortly thereafter; optimists
say she simply went to work for The Man.).

So there you have it. Indestructible money ("Domar" was probably
someone's early attempt to translate the written language of the
Ancient "dollar" and it just stuck) and ALL the stages of ID in an
unidentifiable package (The "magic wand"). Plans to implement a
thumbprint scanner into each credstick were probably underway right
before the Big Boom. I didn't include them in the Gamma World version
because I like the idea of anybody being able to use anybody else's
credstick (It was a felony in pre-holocaust America, but now there's
no way to prove who actually owns the 'stick).

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

   Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 12:11:48 -0400
   From: bigfella@bbs2.rmrc.net (Barclay Johnson)
Subject: Re: [gworld] Money

>Well it not necessarily 1 card 1 domar. A Gold card has got be worth more
>than a drab library card. Here in the UK we recently we had Phone cards
>with DragonLance pictures. Those have got worth something, wouldn't you
>say?
>
>Regards,
>
>--- James ----
>
>http://www.jpb-s.demon.co.uk / Gamma World Appreciation & Mutant Bikers of
>the Atomic Wastelands

That thought struck me this morning too. In a future where the actual value
of the card is meaningless, probably the prettier cards would be the most
in demand. Perhaps cards without pictures on them wouldn't be valuable at
all. As I said before, at least in America what we use for money isn't
particularly beautiful like the gold and silver our distant ancestors used
to trade. It makes lousy jewelry. I bet hologram cards and the like would
be even more valuable.
        In general it's a great concept, in that the more basic, almost
childlike logic of Gamma Worlders would be to trade a number of cards in
payment, not realizing that it was the information on the cards was what
was valuable, not the cards themselves. Fun.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

   Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 16:57:31 +0000
   From: zodgrod@netxn.com
Subject: Re: Re[2]: [gworld] Money

Let's not forget that Gamma World is a role-playing game, and not an
attempt at accurately reflecting the way the world would be after a
nuclear war.  We're allowed to take a little bit of creative license.
Banking could become decentralized in the next few hundred years, new
types of cards could come into existence, etc.

As for the gold and silver standard, there's no reason why new veins
of precious metals couldn't be brought closer to the surface during
the cataclysmic earthquakes. Mines would be built, metal would be
extracted, coins would be minted.

As for the 50 Domars per person, consider that half of the
sentient population of Gamma Terra live in Tech I hunter-gatherer
societies. Now your average person has 100 domars, since the Tech I
people are trading goats (Grens and Seekers wouldn't even touch a
Domar, much less have their alloted 50). I can be generous in saying
that 75% of the more civilized peoples live as serfs and only
occasionally even SEE a Domar, bringing that number up to about 400
Domars per person. Not everybody is an adventurer, scooping up and
hoarding all the Domars. Even in the real world, most of the money is
in the hands of a very small number of people (The exact statistics
escape me), so it's not a big stretch to imagine the same situation
in a fantasy world.

By the way, what do you use in your campaign?

>Well that's my two cents (or should I say GP)(BTW if you use gold as
>your standard where is all this minted gold coming from? when was the
>last time YOU saw a gold coin?)
>

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

   Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 14:53:13 +1000 (EST)
   From: PATRICK BURKE <p1.burke@student.qut.edu.au>
Subject: Re: [gworld] Money

On Thu, 16 Oct 1997 zodgrod@netxn.com wrote:
> Okay, here it is.
>
> The paper currency of the United States has already undergone some
> changes, and by the early 2000's, we should see a whole new set of
> paper bills in the same style as the new $100 bill.
>
> In the late 22nd century, the acids and toxins in the atmosphere, not
> to mention the sweat from all the Ph-imbalanced people shortened the
> useful life of paper money considerably, so the next step was to
> reintroduce the bills in a thin, paper-like polymer with no
> biodegradability and an incredibly long lifespan. The new bills were
> the same recognizable size as the old, but were virtually
> indestructible, being immune to almost anything short of  deliberate
> cutting with a knife or scissors. Each contained colorful holographic
> images to deter counterfeiting and attempt to rekindle a dying faith
> in the United States Government..

We've got them in Australia, no holographic images though... and their
only sort-of indestructable...

Patrick

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

   Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 17:37:45 -0700
   From: "Hubbell's" <mhubbell@dmi.net>
Subject: Re: [gworld] Money

Tom Foster wrote:

> I'd find the argument that the domar as being a credit card pretty
> believable, or at least a 'cash card' of some type. I'm of the opinion
> that we're moving towards a 'cashless' society as it is (saw something
> on Good Morning America about testing of cash cards already), and that
> paper money will either go underground to be used for illegal dealings
> with fences, or will dissappear altogether.
> Tom F.

Somehow, I don't think paper money would just go underground, because it
wouldn't be of any value to legitimate businesses and more honest
people. Although I guess it would be a way to keep track of favors, if
everyone in the crime ring/mafia/whatever agreed (snicker). Vinny bumps
off Tony, so Vince gives him a c-note, good for one hit, no refunds...
Ahem. Yes. Sorry.

~[yberia

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

   Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 21:25:56 -0400
   From: bigfella@bbs2.rmrc.net (Barclay Johnson)
Subject: Re: [gworld] Money

>I'd find the argument that the domar as being a credit card pretty
>believable, or at least a 'cash card' of some type. I'm of the opinion
>that we're moving towards a 'cashless' society as it is (saw something
>on Good Morning America about testing of cash cards already), and that
>paper money will either go underground to be used for illegal dealings
>with fences, or will dissappear altogether.
>
>Tom F.

If paper money disappears from public use, it's most likely the one thing
that criminals would give up on right off. If it doesn't have any
legitimate value no fence would take it. Like Gamma World mutants, they'd
probably use bullets (admittedly in a more traditional, non monetary sense
of their use) as their rate of exchange for useless paper money. They
themselves, like their irradiated descendants, would probably place great
value on "found" cash cards.

B.J. Johnson

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

   Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 21:26:03 -0400
   From: bigfella@bbs2.rmrc.net (Barclay Johnson)
Subject: Re: [gworld] Money

>In 2203, the Federal Government introduced the credstick, a "wand"
>about the length of a pencil and twice the diameter. This electronic
>device contained all of the user's personal information, including
>credit balance, driving record and medical information.  Harsh
>penalties were enstated for tampering with any credstick, and only
>one person outside the Government was ever known to have cracked
>the encryption anyway (She disappeared shortly thereafter; optimists
>say she simply went to work for The Man.).

Sounds cool. I seem to recall the characters on "Max Headroom" using
similar, cylindrical devices plugged into cash readers. You wouldn't
believe the mental gyrations it took to attach the name of a show to that
particular half remembered detail.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

   Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 15:04:50 +1000 (EST)
   From: PATRICK BURKE <p1.burke@student.qut.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: [gworld] Money

On Thu, 16 Oct 1997 dturner@s3.com wrote:

>Well that's my two cents (or should I say GP)(BTW if you use gold as
>your standard where is all this minted gold coming from? when was the
>last time YOU saw a gold coin?)
>

Haven't seen many gold COINS,... but what about gold BARS (I've seen a
number of them).  So if a person had found one or more of the smaller type
(about 1 inch by 2 inch by 5mm), and had a supply of gold, then why not
make copies of them, and use them as cash?

If a number of people did this, and especially if they started doing it
15 to 50 to 100 years after the war (when a large[?] number of people who
knew what the value of these gold CARDS were worth were still alive), it
could be possible...

Patrick

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

   Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 01:08:11 -0400
   From: bigfella@bbs2.rmrc.net (Barclay Johnson)
Subject: Re[2]: [gworld] Money

>zodgrod@netxn.com wrote:
>Heck we're talking about a society with super computers and
>holographic tech. you might just have one programmable card that
>projects the correct info when activated. (press one for your
>bubble car license, two for your ATM, etc)

That's where it turns from a Domar to a Stage I I.D. One thing I'd point
out is that it's not 100 percent certain which advancement's catch on and
which don't. Case in point, the Metric system in the U.S. It's a lot more
logical system than English, but it never caught on. There is the potential
that individual personalized cards for every conceivable purpose, from
banking to buying shoes to coffee houses, not to mention stuff like prepaid
phone cards and quick service type stuff. It could go either way.
        From an industrial design standpoint, the more functions you add to
a device, the harder it is to use (Look at copy machines. How much of the
thing's myriad functions do most people use all the time, short of "Copy"
and maybe "Reduce/Enlarge"?) A card that does everything may be too complex
for it's convenience, but then again it could catch on.

>So the number of available dolmars per person could be as low 150 or 50.
>Well that's my two cents (or should I say GP)(BTW if you use gold as
>your standard where is all this minted gold coming from? when was the
>last time YOU saw a gold coin?)

True enough, but there are plenty of gold rings, gold fillings, gold
necklaces, gold watches, and as Brandon pointed out gold circuitry in
certain machines. A lot of looting went on, and probably still goes on, in
the years after the apocalypse. Somehow it became valuable in our ancient
history, and it could probably attain similar value if history had to start
over. It'd probably still be "mined", in terms of folks going in and
looting ruined or buried shopping complexes and department stores. They're
called "Dollar Forty Niners" or K-Marters in the New West.

B.J. Johnson

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

   Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 15:24:30 +1000 (EST)
   From: PATRICK BURKE <p1.burke@student.qut.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: [gworld] Money

On Fri, 17 Oct 1997 zodgrod@netxn.com wrote:
> hoarding all the Domars. Even in the real world, most of the money is
> in the hands of a very small number of people (The exact statistics
> escape me), so it's not a big stretch to imagine the same situation
> in a fantasy world.

20% of the people hold 80% of the wealth (in Australia, at least)

Patrick

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

   Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 12:05:17 -0400 (EDT)
   From: Gweedo <gweedo@shadow.net>
Subject: Re: [gworld]ID Cards


> Personally I don't use the ID card mechanism described in GW. I know it is
> one of the most traditional aspects of the game, but they always seemed a
> little artificial to me. If you had a set of players totally new to GW,
> they'd never think of flashing an ID card in front of a robot or use it to
> open doors. I doesn't really make a whole lot of sense. Moreover I can't
> readily believe that these cards were not site specific and useful in only
> very few places and circumstances.

The good thing is that you could possibly have an encounter where there
are people that already know how to swipe these cards.  This is quite easy
to overcome.

Another good thing is if the cards are site specific, you can have them
find it on site, it could be something "out of the ordinary" to keep it
from mixing with the other cards. Then at the end of the adventure if they
can no longer use it at that site, at least they could use it as money. :)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

   Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 11:57:25 -0700
   From: dturner@s3.com
Subject: Re[4]: [gworld] Money

By the way, what do you use in your campaign?

At this time I am still trying to convince my gaming group that gamaworld
is a fun game. (na... we would rather play GURPS) (YUCH) (sorry to all the
gurps fans out there.)

That is why I am really enjoying the discussions going on here. When (if) I
ever get the game going I think I am going to avoid a lot of pit falls
because of the ideas being bounced around here.

BTW Thanks to everyone. Your all being extremely helpful.

David

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

   Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 11:28:22 +1000 (EST)
   From: PATRICK BURKE <p1.burke@student.qut.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: [gworld] Money

>
> That's where it turns from a Domar to a Stage I I.D. One thing I'd point
> out is that it's not 100 percent certain which advancement's catch on and
> which don't. Case in point, the Metric system in the U.S. It's a lot more
> logical system than English, but it never caught on.

Hey, that's the only system we use in Australia (the Metric System, that
is...), though I can convert between the two to about 3 decimal places,
but only because I've been playing D&D, AD&D, AD&D 2ed for the last 6
years or so, so I'm probabially one of the few people under 30 that knows
how to convert them (Australia has been using decimal since the 13th
Feburary 1966...)

Patrick

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

   Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 18:12:59 -0400
   From: Reginald Blue <rvb@trsvr.tr.unisys.com>
Subject: RE: Re[2]: [gworld] Money

One small side note to the gold coin issue.  I found out that if you
collected all the gold in the world that's ever been found and put it all
in one place it would be a cube that measures about 10 meters a side.  Now
while that's alot, it's not as much as I've seen certain DnD characters
hauling around with them.  (some of my older one's included--amazing what
going to college will do to your gaming style.)

Point is:  Historically, gold has not been used for the "common" currency, 
nor really has silver.  Most of the time coins have been made of baser 
metals then stamped with the "royal" seal to make them valuable.

AD&D and GW 1st & 2nd editions took a few liberties with their coinage 
IMHO.

Reggie

----------
   From: 	Barclay Johnson[SMTP:bigfella@bbs2.rmrc.net]
Subject: 	Re[2]: [gworld] Money

<pift>

>True enough, but there are plenty of gold rings, gold fillings, gold
>necklaces, gold watches, and as Brandon pointed out gold circuitry in
>certain machines. A lot of looting went on, and probably still goes on, in
the years after the apocalypse. Somehow it became valuable in our ancient
>history, and it could probably attain similar value if history had to start
>over. It'd probably still be "mined", in terms of folks going in and
>looting ruined or buried shopping complexes and department stores. They're
>called "Dollar Forty Niners" or K-Marters in the New West.
>
>B.J. Johnson

